As previous research clearly shows, a variety of competencies are used and needed among artists, musicians, music producers and others active in the art of popular music production. We chose to focus on two very successful persons in popular music: Irving Berlin (1888-1989) and Martin Sandberg (1971-), also known as Max Martin. In this study we present an analysis of core aspects of Irving Berlin and Martin Sandberg's songs and creative work. Although there are of course great differences in the surrounding culture in which they were and are active, it is still evident which similarities they both show. The analysis is based on a comprehensive interview with Irving Berlin by Frank Ward O'Malley (1875-1932), originally published in 'The American Magazine', Volume 90, October 1920, where he presented "Nine Rules for Writing Popular Songs" and on an interview we conducted ourselves with Martin Sandberg in November 2019. For the analysis we also used a music production and song writing model based on strategies that were used by the successful Swedish music producer Dag Volle (1963–1998), also known as Denniz PoP. Volle lacked formal music education, but he had some unique music-producer skills and also developed new innovative music-production methods. Today Volle probably is most well-known as the mentor of Max Martin. This study is part of the research project Searching for Sophia in music production where we study how various aspects linked to music production have contributed to the Swedish music industry's international achievements. The term Sophia [wisdom] refers to ancient Greek knowledge typology and is used to summarize the theoretical framework of the project. In the project a team of researchers study various formal and informal learning processes connected to education in music production in higher education.